December 18, 2018, 09:50:36 PM

Author Topic: Pedro Martins - Head Coach  (Read 1192 times)

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Olympiakos_nyc

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 10:36:46 PM »
No matter what happens I want Martins to see through the season.
I’m sick of this coaching carousel

Red Legacy

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 01:06:40 PM »
Likewise. Even if it means we lose the protathlima again, I want to see some modicum of consistency. Let the coach see the season out and see what happens.

Attilio

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 09:04:20 PM »

Foti

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 03:50:29 AM »
Jardim: finished 3rd in the CL with 9 points against Arsenal, Schalke and the French champions. Undefeated in the league at 1st place. Sacked.

Michel: Round of 16 CL, another year 9 points in the CL. Beat Benfica, Manchester, Juve, Athletico. Won the league with ease.

Bento: Won the league, won derbies with big score lines, got out of the group in the Europa League.

On Olympiakos social media and the Greek newspapers most seem to still be in favour of Martins. From the head office with the latest interviews they seem to still be impressed by him. I personally am disappointed so far. I'm tired of the constant firing of coaches left and right, but Martins hasn't impressed me at all. Compare him to the last three coaches above who had at least a couple months and he's achieved little to nothing. 3 derbies and 0 wins (2 at home, 1 to a bankrupt PAO). -6 from the top to a PAOK with deductions. Giving OFI their only win. And a ridiculous amount of 95 minute winners that the Olympiakos media will call "Amazing Team Spirit" and "Never Giving Up". 1 or 2 extra time winners in a season for us should be exciting, but this many should be seen as a problem. And we can blame the lack of a striker but then you'd have to forget about: 2017/2018-Djurdjevic/Ansarifard, 2017-Cardozo/Ansarifard, 2014-Nelson Valdez/Scepovic.....we had Djebbour's, Okkas, and Dani's and we were banging in goals in Greece no problem.

In Europe we haven't impressed at all. Up until the red card the soon to be relegated Burnley held their own in Karaiskaki, and took it to us in England. We're about to be eliminated from the Europa League group stages for the first time and we're a Pot 1 team. We were unlucky to get the group we did but it's nowhere near the most difficult group any coach for us has faced, and we've pulled off zero amazing performances. What Martins has done in games is been out coached by Gattusso in Milan and forced to make subs to fix up his obvious starting 11 mistakes (not the only time) as early as the 30th minute with Bouchalakis vs Betis. And Bouchalakis brings up my biggest problem with Martins- his handling of Toure and others.

We've got one of the top 10 central midfielders of all time on our team. An Olympiakos and world legend. Who got played once, in the San Siro, in a position he never plays, and does well. He gets a second game, again out of position, plays bad (so did the whole team) and is never seen again. This is a player who is loved in the locker room and has shown he's still got it (Cambiasso-Bento all over again) and he isn't given even sub minutes. Podence does 100 tricks and loses the ball and gets 90 mins a game. Bouchalakis can't make a pass and starts every game. Fetfatzidis needed to make 5 game changing horrible mistakes for Martins to finally give up on him. Nahuel had a horrible first couple games and is now starter. We clearly have problems with our dreadful wingers and Pardo can't get a run out.

Again I'm tired of the quick-firing of coaches, and I believe coaches all need to be given a decent amount of time, same with Martins, but I'm pretty disappointed so far.

Red Legacy

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 12:36:26 PM »
The three coaches you mentioned were indeed great coaches for us...Jardim and Michel could be considered some of the best we've ever had. But there's important context you are forgetting.

Jardim inherited a fantastic roster built by Valverde. He barely had to make any moves when it came to adjusting to his philosophy. The team had great cohesion and his firing was a disgrace that most of us agreed with.

Michel also inherited a great team and made a fantastic run. However, as we saw towards the end of his tenure, the man was running out of ideas. The team was stalling and the locker room was not looking too good. I wish we had kept him, but it is what it is.

Bento also was a haphazard firing. The man was fired after 3 straight losses which threatened our title defense. Again, I blame the fans for this one because he should have been offered some slack given how well he had been performing earlier in the season. He inherited Victor Sanchez'z squad which wasn't his own, however, that squad was not bad at all. Solid defense, midfiel was solid especially early in the season and the goalscoring was worked once Bento took the helm.

Let's compare that to what Martins had to deal with. Inherited the worst Olympiacos roster that we've had in a decade. Worse than the roster that lost us the title to Panathinaikos prior to Marinakis's buyout. The roster was full of players that he did not want yet had to make do with a minimalist budget(something he was probably used to given who he managed in Portugal).

Had to solve the following problems:

Below average defense
Abysmal midfield
Non-threatening wingers
Sub-par scoring options

Looking back from today we can see the following:

Average bordering Above average defense. Wingbacks have been stellar and he makes the most out of their capabilities pushing forward, finally found a CB pairing that looks semi stable despite Vukovic still not being a stellar player. Don't know why Meriah hasn't been tried alongside Cisse, but alas it is much better than how it started.

After much experimentation, Camara/Guilherme has emerged as our go to pairing. Bear in mind, this is a BRAND NEW MIDFIELD. The only players that remained the same were Bouchalakis, Fortounis, Androutsos. Fortounis doesn't really count because he plays further up the pitch. Now our midfield is stable and dominates possession every game except for Real Betis. That being said, the midfield is in a much better state than last year.

We also blew up the winger position. We brought in new faces, low cost, low risk, high reward. Lazaros was the most impactful transfer and Podence has great talent and potential. The only problem was that of  all of the wingers we brought in, Lazaros is the only one that has been able to score consistently prior to his injury. That being said, these wingers are still much more effective, especially in buildup than what we had last year. Thus, we have another improvement.

The only position where I will concede that we did not improve(in fact may have slightly regressed on) is in our finishing. Once again, we blew up the position and brought in all new faces. Manos, Kouka, Guerrero. All low risk(relatively) options with decent ceilings. Guerrero turned out to be a nice player with a ridiculous strike rate in preseason that unfortunately came back to earth. He is a great all purpose forward that makes great runs and contributes to the run of play, but isn't the prolific scorer we hoped he would be. Kouka and Manos have turned out to be busts.


Now, looking towards the winter, we have brought in another winger with great potential and are looking at mutliple good value buys to bring us the scoring edge back. For once, I am in agreement with most of the media and fans. Martins continues to improve and work with the squad. He may annoy us with his stubbornness in certain picks and the handling of Yaya Toure, but we cannot ask for much more from him or Marinakis.

We wanted an overhaul, we got it. We can't expect to catch lightning in a bottle every year with squad cohesion. This is a slower build up but with much more visible improvement. Hopefully we hit with Masouras and the striker we bring in and end our goalscoring woes.

I, personally, am not disappointed. Not yet anyway. I will continue to be not disappointed as long as I continue to see improvement.

Kozani5

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2018, 03:59:37 AM »
are there two player further in mentality than cambiasso and toure, did you really make that comparison?

martins has the team organized. i am not going back and watch the derbies but i say in all 3 games total the opponent has maybe 1 clear chance and we probably 10 or so, and we walk away with 2 draws and a loss.

despite the bad luck, i actually am impressed at the apparent team spirit of the squad, and i really like martins demeanor on the touchline. he has done a great job and he isn't just throwing shit against a wall, it looks like he actually has a plan on who plays and what he wants to see etc

Foti

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2018, 01:44:19 AM »
The Yaya Toure - Cambiasso comparison came from when both players stopped getting game time despite proving that they still have it and being the best player on the field when did get actual minutes. Mentality wise, yes I think there would be two players further in mentality than these two. Toure isn't exactly a trouble maker, he's well liked by his team mates both past and present, he's captained teams, and he's only had problems with one coach: Guardiola. His agent does these ridiculous things that pisses everybody off and he's speaking on behalf of Toure, but we've had superstars pull diva acts for way less than what Toure's been dealt. Again, turned down MLS, Arab, Turkey, China money, played 1 game out of position in Milan, best player for our team, got another 45 mins, never seen again. He even played well in the friendlies during international breaks.

Again I want Martins to get the full year. More than a full year if we keep improving because we have improved since last year (I would hope we'd improve from that garbage) but just two things I find strange that fans aren't have more of a problem with:

1. The Toure situation. it's stubbornness on Martins part and we can't know if throwing him on in any derbies, any European matches, any lost points would've changed anything because - no chances. He's way more talented than certain players getting plenty of minutes in that position and the same could be said for Pardo. No reason he shouldn't get something for how disastrous Fetfatzidis and Nahuel have been.

2. I agree last season was the worst team in a long long time. Stat and roster wise. But we're actually at a worse spot  today in this season than we were last season. -8 behind the leader and that's with deductions. If we lose to Milan we'l have 1 point in the group stage if you don't count the Luxembourg points, not exactly better than our 1 point in the CL to Barca. We're playing better than last year but it's also a better roster no? We had worse strikers last year and worse wingers (our 2 biggest areas of improvement this January) and we managed better. Not concerning to anyone? Just bad luck? I believe in luck every now and then but luck and referees have been the excuse every game so far. That can't keep up. 

Inferno7

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2018, 06:39:08 AM »
Martins has made and continues to make mistakes.
He played Omar right mid yesterday. He has Pardo and Androutsos  who can play there but he hasn’t given them a chance. Both better options. He’s given that dud Nahuel many chances though.
We concede goals nearly every game. Vukovic is rubbish, he was not wanted by previous coaches yet with Martins he is a starter regardless of his shortcomings . Nicolaou is NO WORSE than Vukovic, infact  he’s probably more mobile. Our defence has not been fixed regardless of all the rubbish we read about Martins  fixing our defence.
Starting Bouchalakis ahead of Toure is farcical. Toure is miles ahead of Bouchalakis who has also failed at every club we’ve loaned him out too. How many matches has Toure started? How many has Bouchalakis started?
Hasan was Martins signing, he’s rubbish.
I’m happy to give Martins a full season to sort out the roster and build a decent squad but he doesn’t fill me with much confidence right now.
Sure the refereeing has been bad for us and favourable to BAOG but the reason we are that many points behind is of own own doing, our own inability.
Martins needs to fix this.
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Red Legacy

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2018, 01:03:27 PM »
With Lazaros out, what other winger has performed in an above average fashion? Omar was clearly a shot in the dark against what should not have been difficult competition. I don't mind that experimentation.

Nahuel is a dud, but he starts because he tracks back defensively which we've known Portuguese coaches to value highly. Given that only Lazaros has really produced at that position, I understand why he starts Nahuel despite hating him as a player.

We're beating a dead horse here with Yaya Toure. Mishandled. Period. We all want to see him play deeper and see what happens. I think he could have been another Ibagazaesque player for us. I think he has learned his lesson from Bouchalakis, his usage has vastly declined compared to his first month. He must offer some kind of vocal or locker room presence because we see him used on the Greek national team as well(until the last set of games). This was the same thing we saw with the twilight of Maniatis's career with us.

I didn't think Kouka was his first choice. Wasn't he more like his 3rd or 4th? Either way, yes he is a bust.

We dropped a lot of points in the beginning of the season are coming off a decent win streak despite the tie. The improvement is there and we have already signed a winger for January and are letting loose with some of the dead weight we have acquired. Let's hope we can get Berg or Araujo, then I think we'll be in business.


Olympiakos_nyc

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 01:15:33 AM »
The club issues stems from Marco Silva departure and so abruptly.

Management obviously thought he was a keeper for several years.

No matter what happens Martins finishes the season!

kru

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2018, 06:28:25 PM »
 Tremendous job coaching today. He probably could have pulled the little cat a few minutes earlier but based on the results he did quite well.

Kozani5

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2018, 06:52:32 PM »
hes a great manager, and today was a great game.

the team not finishing i do not put on him, same thing today.

the toro sub paid dividends

Olympiakos_nyc

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2018, 11:31:54 PM »
Martins may have flaws but he’s here to stay!
He seems happy to be here and not looking for the so called next job.

He’s obviously earned the right to finish the season and we should give him full confidence to come back next year.


Inferno7

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Re: Pedro Martins - Head Coach
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2018, 03:00:02 AM »
I think todays result has secured his position  at the club. Marinakis will stick by him and allow him to build a decent team.
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